tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN July 11, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
that's it for us. thanks for watching. time for cnn tonight with don lemon. this is cnn breaking news. breaking news is new protests and a vigil for fallen officers, that on the eve of president obama's trip to dallas. this is "cnn tonight", i'm don lemon. demonstrators taking to the streets after a week of shocking violence. and mean while, in dallas, a vigil for officers killed in the attack, as the family of micah johnson struggle to understand
the unthink nl. >> i don't know what to say to anybody to make anything better. >> the surgeon who fought to save the city's fallen officers saying this. >> and i want the peace officers to see me, a black man, and understan that i support you. i will defend you. and i will care for you. that doesn't mean that i do not fear you. >> and meanwhile, the former mayor of new york takes aim at black lives matter. >> when you say black lives matter, that's inherently racist. >> plus, with the republican convention one week away, donald trump says this. we'll have that for you just a little later on. but i want to begin with ed
lavande lavandera. and martin savage. ed, i want to start with you. what are police finding in micah johnson's home? >> reporter: well, you know, that's one of the mysteries here. they're really looking through a lot of the items that they removed from the house in the hours just after the shooting. and some of the things they've found we've kind of known to some extent, these bomb-making explosives that we've heard from federal law enforcement tonight saying about 3.5 pounds of bomb-making material, a pound of smokeless powder, a pound of black powder and tannerite. but it's about 3.5 points. another law enforcement source tells me that this material was found throughout the house in various parts. all of it's significant, because what investigators are trying to do is figure out what was the intention of all of this. was this part of some bigger,
grand gross attack he had planned? there >> there's a bit of a mystery, ed, is there think insight into the initials he wrote in blood, r.b.? >> no, investigators talked about that again today. they tried to figure out what that means. according to the police chief in dallas, in micah's own blood he wrote those initials, r.b. in two different locations, in the community college building where he was killed essentially, so ne they're still trying to figure out what that could mean. >> martin, to you now, you are at the candlelight vigil in dallas. president obama arriving tomorrow. and the funerals are being set. what is the city like this evening? >> reporter: you know, it's really hard to put it into words. i think if you tried to find one, it would be heartbreak.
people showed up for the candlelight vigil, but it was an opportunity for each of the fallen officers, mainly co-workers, to speak about those that they loest. talking about the events of the evening and how they inspired them throughout their lives. they broke up. many in the crowdmany in the cr them broke down. it is a very painful time. the shock now beginning to wear off, but now we face a week of funerals. and it is going to be incredibly difficult, the weight of laugs on this city is extreme lly hea. the nation has to come together. and a frafrpgs conversation about raece has to begin. there cannot be a continuation of the same. >> the shock is wearing off and the heartbreak setting in.
i want to go to paulo sandoval. what are you seeing there? >> reporter: we're just outside the georgia governor's mansion, and i want you to see what the situation looks like as we walk down the street. you have what seems to be an endless rope of demonstrators, young, old, black, white, hispanic, gay, straight, a diverse crowd that has gathered outside the governor's mansion. we are not sure if he is actually here. but if you look to my right, you see officers standing shoulder to shoulder. both local and state police, keeping a watchful eye on the crowd. and it's unfair to show these pictures without adding some context. it is peaceful, yes. we have seen violence and at times controversial, obviously officers are hoping that
everybody stays on this side of the road. but at the same time, there is this dialog. people are having this conversation and at times very passionate and intense conversations. this is what's happening, and of course everybody under that united banner, black lives matter. people have been here already for about 30 minutes or so. but this march started early on in the upscale area. people marching all the way here, and i've talked to folks, asking them how long they're willing to stick around. they say as long as it takes. tonight is the fifth night of demonstrations and protests. today we did see a couple dozen arrests during the martha's actually taken head. but overall, we've seen 15,000 people take to the street. the last five days, and the number of arrests well under 50. that is a good sign that there is, the demonstrations are
peaceful but passionate. >> polo sandoval. the parents and stepmother of micah johnson sat down with the blaze's lawrence jones. thank you for joining us. i understand that micah johnson's family reached out to you. why did they reach out to you? why did they want to do an interview? >> i was actually on you guys' on the program friday and i was talking about a balance between police brutality as well as loving and coming together and healing, and his mom said that she just felt like i was a christian man and i was fair. and she was sitting there in her house and said, you know what? i would allow that man to interview me, because you got to imagine, the press is surrounding her house. from there, the person that she
talked to knew my mom on facebook and contacted my mom. and then of course it went from there. >> that she wanted to do an interview. many times it's often personal. you know, you get to do these interviews personal, because you're fair, and i think that's great. was there anything that they said to you that stood out to you? what was it like going into the room with them, to sit down with them? >> right, so, dpoon, i'm commentator. i'm not a journalist like you. it's not my job to grab the stories like a journalist would do. so what i wanted them to do is to get an opportunity to tell their story and to answer some of the allegations that were put out. so there were some tough questions there. but there was mostly the healing. one thing that was perplexing to me was them explaining the change of micah from when he went into the military, and he was a patriot, and valued the constitution and then, when he
left the military, how hurt he was. and he even used the word that they are liars. >> we have that. let's listen to it. and then you can discuss it. >> i don't know what to say to make anything better. i didn't see it coming. >> he was a good son. he's a good son. >> i love my son with all my heart. i hate what he did. >> did he ever talk about any of his experiences in the military that maybe made you question that something happened? was it the war? or? >> i don't remember anything. >> i don't remember anything about it. he just, the military was not what micah thought it would be.
>> it disappointed him. >> he was very disappointed. >> so a lot to ask you, lawrence. >> yeah. >> the dad, i mean, he is just distraught there. >> very. >> what did they say about his time in the military? why did they think that changed him? >> because he was an outgoing person before he went into the military, very full of life. and, but when he got back from the military, he just wanted to stay in the house, in his room. he was against people. he used to quote, his family said he did not like people. he did not trust people. >> after the military. >> he did not want to let people in. after the military, after. >> but not before the military. >> not before the military. >> do you know when the last time they had spoken to him? >> they told me, his dad particularly told me that he spoke to him monday. and they had barbecue together. he was a vegan.
he didn't eat anything that wasn't organic, and so that was the first time his dad had seen him, you know, in a while, eat beans and barbecue and whatever. the mom saw him the day of the sh shooting. and she said, you know, he said he was coming back home. he was going to the protest. that he loved her, it that he would be back home. she didn't expect anything like that. >> that was the dad and mom in the video. was his step mom in there? >> she is white. >> his step mom is white. >> she's white. >> so he didn't hate based on race. he hated injustice. but these sites seemed to be race-based site the. >> one of the questions. it was a tough question. i wanted to know if he was a member of the nation of islam. and was he a member of black panthers and the new black panther party, and they said without a doubt that he wasn't a part of it.
they said they were believers. and his mom is a strong believer. you know, she's a speaker, and she talks about her faith. it was a loving home. and so it was hard to make the connection of him being a part of that movement, because you see all these pictures of him. and by the way, they are very upset about those pictures being taken off his facebook page and things like that and exploited. because they said it didn't tell the full picture. >> okay. so then let's talk about it. so then what happened? how did he, so what happened to him? do they think he was radicalized in some way by certain groups? so what was the explanation? >> so when he came back from the military, he started to just, to study african-american studies and his heritage. and he wanted to know where he came from. and his dad said it was a method of them bonding, because they started getting into where their ancestors came from, and it was a project for them to the to
bo -- together to bond with, and he really got into it and started getting healthy. and that's where he got in the movement of there is this injustice against black people as a whole. and he was really irritated about it. >> he was really irritated. >> he was really irritated. even with the jesse williams, the b.e.t. awards. his father said, son, you know, there are some things i disagreed with him, but there were some things that i agreed with him. we have to move forward. we can't hate, we have to show love, even though some may hate us. >> great interview, lawrence. thank i so much. >> thank you, don. >> i appreciate it. when we come back, i'm going to talk to the african-american surgeon who fought to save the lives of police officers, why he says the experience changed him.
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please, whatever you're doing, just sit down and watch this next segment. doctors speaking out today about treating the doctors who were ambushed last thursday. one of them was dr. brian williams. he says the experience is personal for him, and he thinks about it every day. >> i understand the anger and the frustration and distrust of law enforcement. but they are not the problem. the problem is the lack of open discussions about the impact of race relations in this country. and i think about it every day. that i was unable to save those cops when they came here that
night. it weighs on my mind constantly. this killing, it has to stop. >> mm. dr. brian williams joins me now. thank you, doctor, how are you? >> thank you for having me. i'm getting by. >> that was a courtesy, but i was watching you today. how are you doing? how are you doing? >> how am i doing? that's somewhat difficult to answer. i'm, i go hour-to-hour. this incident has been playing in my mind constantly. it's, it's like this bad movie on an endless loop. but going to work has forced me to kind of push it aside
temporarily, but it continues to break through. and i discuss it a lot with my wife. we talk about it at work. but i have not fully had a chance to just sit back and process, really, what actually happened. >> i thought it was really profound when you said, because it was very simple. you said i don't know what i'm going to do with all this. you don't know from moment to moment what you're going to do, right? >> that's true. i know for me, i have to do something. i don't know what that's going to be or when. i'm savvy enough to recognize that there is an issue just vptsd taken that next step. i still think about the officers and the families and the men that were killed in baton rouge and minnesota last week.
i compare my situation to theirs. and it's hard for me to focus on myself right now. >> it's a real, if we can just for a moment, if you will g indulge me. it's a real tug-of-war for you, because you are a successful surgeon. you have tremendous respect for law enforcement. while you are a successful surgeon and you do have respect for law enforcement, you fear them at the same time. that's not something that your friends sitting there, a fellow surgeon as a white person does not have to deal with. help our, help america understand the conflict that you have as a black man. >> well, cleerarly, when i'm at work, dressed in my white coat, the reactions i get from
officers and individuals i deal with on a daily basis is much different than i would get outside the hospital in regular clothes. and my fear and some mild inherent distrust of law enforcement going back to my own personal experiences that i've had over my entire life, as well as hearing the stories from friends and family that look like me that have had similar experiences. you put that all together, and that will explain why i feel the way i do. >> your friend is dr. kent -- i forget his last name. he was there with you today. you know who i'm talk being about? >> dr. ken? >> the doctor, the surgeon who's also a police officer. >> dr. eastman. >> dr. eastman was sitting there today, and you guys, he talked about your friendship.
and how your families knew each other, and your wives know each other, your children, and you've had these difficult, you're starting these difficult conversations with each other, and you have very different views on all of this. what are you talking about? how are you facilitating those conversations? what are you guys discussing? >> well, clearly, dr. eastman and i have very different views on law enforcement. he is a police officer. i am not. he probably has never had the same experiences dealing with law enforcement that i have had over my lifetime. and now that this incident has happened, it has allowed these conversations to begin, but there's certainly little progress at this point, because there's only been a few days, and hear isthere is a long, lono go from here. >> are you on the verge of tears
at every moment? >> not at every moment, but there have been times where people have mentioned the officers, and then that sets off a chain reaction of thoughts in my head about what happened that evening. i'm, i'm good most of the day. but there are times where it just takes over. >> mm. you said every day you think about how you couldn't save those police officers coming in. is that guilt? what is that feeling? >> well, i did mention myself.
this is a team that worked on all these officers. i certainly was directing that team. and in the end, i did much of the physical work on the individuals. in the end, certainly, out of respect for the families, i don't want to discuss all the details of what we did. but i just wish maybe i could have gotten to them a few minutes sooner. >> mm. the country's with you. the world is with you. and we understand your pain, as much as we can. i -- >> i don't understand why people think it's okay to kill police
officers. i don't understand why black men die in custody, and they're forgotten the next day. i don't know why this has to be us against them. this is all, it has it -- it has to stop. >> the world, you have everybody's attention, doctor, quite honestly. what do you want to say? what would you like to say to america right now? >> we are all in this together.
we are all connected. all this violence, all this hatred, all these disagreements. it impacts us all, whether you realize it or not. this is not the kind of world we want to leave for our children. something has to be done. >> can we talk about, if, your daughter. because you say that you're often out with your daughter, and you want her to see you having positive experiences with law enforcement. and there are certain things you do in her presence and in the presence of law enforcement to reenforce that. >> well, i, when i'm out, if i'm at a restaurant, and i see police officers in uniform eating, i make it a point to pick up their tab. for me, i want them to see a
black man who acknowledges them as individuals. acknowledges sacrifices they make, show that appreciate what they do. and i also want my daughter to see me doing this so that when she grows up she can recognize that the police officers are not the enemy, that they're people she can trust. because the burden i carry with me is not something i want her to have as an adult. >> how old is she? >> she's 5. >> 5 years old. >> did you, you saw the video of alton sterling being and orlando castile being shot. >> yes, i saw them. >> you had no idea that this would somehow spill over into your emergency room. it must be surreal for the moment. >> yes.
it is. i, that is correct. i did not expect there to be a path from, to other states to my city. but i certainly felt the impact of those incidents on me personally. so, for me, the tragedy that began in dallas thursday night, it started for me well before that. and that was the culmination, not the beginning. >> you described these events as a turning point for your life, and that's why you decided to speak out. this changed you. >> it absolutely has changed me. i'm certainly not the only
african-american male in this country that feels the way i do. towards law enforcement. but i work with them on a daily basis. they're my colleagues. they're my friends. and, as i said, i respect what they do. but i also understand how men like me can fear and distrust officers in uniform. i get it. but that does not justify in inciting violence against police officers. it does not justify trying to kill police officers. this incident didn't fix anything. it's making it worse. we're no longer talking about
dead black men. we're no longer discussing race relations in this country. and i certainly don't want to take away from the dallas police officers and their families. but we should be discussing the impact this tragedy has had on everyone involved. >> mm-hm. >> not just the heroes in blue. the american citizens that pay the price as well. >> so, to that end, you said that there needs to be more open discussion and dialog about race. some people say that there's a lot of talk. there's just not people listening. and others see the problem very differently. we're go being to have a town hall wednesday night on cnn. how do we start to understand each other better? doctor, help us begin that conversation. how do we do that?
>> there are a lot of people talking at each other. talking over each other. trying to shout each other out. but i don't see people truly listening to the other side, truly putting themselves in their shoes and seeing the world through their eyes. and until we're ready to do that, there probably will not be any truly substantive change. >> dr. brian williams, you're one hell of a man. you're a brave man. thank you so much. thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> and we appreciate the service, because you truly are doing the work of the lord, the lord's work. we'll be right back, everyone.
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protesters taking to the streets tonight, outraged at the shooting deaths of black men by police officers. hi, how are you doing? >> i'm good, i'm tired, don, but i'm okay. >> did you get to hear the ichts view that i did before with the doctor from the hospital in doctors? >> i did. it was a powerful interview. and he spoke so much truth about the tough issues of race and racism in this country and the
impact that refusing to talk about these issues has on people. >> what did you think about, because he said there were too many people in their corners, yelling at each other and not listening. that comparison can be made to black lives matter and certain members of police departments, what do you say to that? >> when i think about protests, protest at its root is the notion of telling the truth in public. what we've done is use our bodies to tell the truth in streets, go to board meetings. and the service of black lives. we are bringing these conversations to the forefront. and there's a national conversation about race, policing and justice that there hasn't been before. >> do you think it's a conversation, or do you think that both sides are just stating their position and not listening, and i don't just mean
your side, but the police side. >> i think the movement has been really thoughtful about saying, let's listen, let's respond to it. i've been worried about police unions for instance, have not offered a real reflection on the culture of policing. we should all be able to admit that there's a culture that needs to change. and i've not heard any police unit official say that publicly. and i think that is damaging. >> that's a fair point. i think oftentimes, police unions, because they represent the police officers, they're hard-pressed to say that there is a problem within police departments. so then, delray. we're having this town hall on wednesday, to talk about policing, the issues with the black community. where do you start, are you willing, black lives matter,
willing to sit down with police officers, about how to come to some consensus about how to solve this problem? >> i think that people all across the country have been willing to have these conversations. we think about the police commissioners, i've talked to police commissioners, open to having a conversation, but it requires the police to come and be reflective and not just defensive about their work. the police have killed nearly three people every day this year. we can live in a world where police don't kill people. that's to be a core belief. >> we always have you on, we appreciate you coming. thank you very much. >> thanks, don. up next, what vice president joe biden says in response to rudy giuliani's criticism of black lives matter. we'll be right back. isn't it time to let the real you shine through?
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it's good to have all of you on. here's the former mayor. >> it's inherently racist, because number one, it divides us. all lives matter. and when a presidential candidate, the governor in maryland made the statement that all lives matter, they intimidated him into changing it to black lives matter. all lives matter, black lives, white lives, all lives. the black lives matter never protest when every 14 hours someone is killed in chicago. probably 70%, 80% of the time, it's a black person. where are they then? where are he when the young black child is killed? >> there's a big portion of america who agrees with him. so is this movement dividing people rather than bringing people together to solve a problem? >> one thing that is really important to understand is that
when people say all lives matter, i think that is the goal of everyone involved in all sides of this debate. you want all mlives to matter equally. but when you look at the landscape, including the justice system and the police being part of that system, and when the statistics do not seem to bear out the fact that people are being treated equally, they are focussing their attention to the lives that are not mattering. it is morally right to take that position. >> i'm going to ask all the panelists. do you think it's a movement dividing rather than bringing people together? >> i think it's the rhetoric. i think it's a lot of the rhetoric. when you see these black lives matter protests, and, you know, people say they're peaceful protests, but they get out there and call for the murder of cops or use this racially divisive rhetoric, then that's what
people are looking at. and that's what they think is negative. >> do you, how do you feel about that? is it bringing people together or dividing people? >> i think it's talking about something that makes people very uncomfortable. and that is to speak about the unspeakable. and when we do that, people immediately take sides. based on their cultural or values. in this case, don, we're talking about the case going back to michael brown, now talking about mr. sterling here in baton rouge. that makes people very uncomfortable to speak and see what unfolds on the camera. and to have a group of citizens who willing to take the risk to bring this to the forefront, because of their work, the president formed the police task force, to look at how we are policing, and how we need to do
21st century policing, and we've got a long ways to go. there's a system of accountability to deal with the very issues that centered around mr. sterling losing his life right here in baton rouge. >> charles, what about the argument that rudy giuliani makes that black lives matter folks don't focus on people who are killed in chicago. we've heard that before. but that's not what the goal of black lives matter is, right? >> right. >> i've explained it this way. people who work in cancer research don't say why aren't the people in aids research doing cancer research. that's not the focus of the group. >> anytime anybody dies, that is the travesty. however, you kind of expect criminals to do criminal things. you do not expect people who you haven trusted with your safety, who you are supposed to turn to when you feel threatened to do
something that you find questionable or that borders on criminal itself. and so i think that that part of it, and also the idea that a lot of community violence is territorial, it is either gun, drug-related, gang-related. there are pockets that have tremendous amounts of violence. and there are parts that have almost none, even within communities. so you know that you have the wherewithal, if you have the money and the gumption, that you can move away from that. the omni presence of authority as manifest by police is everywhere. and i think it shakes everyone in a way that is different from what community violence does. >> so this group, you guys will be back in the next hour. we'll continue our conversation. i have many more questions for you. so stick around everyone. coming up, donald trump calling himself the law & order candidate, but are voters buying it? we'll be right back.
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memorial service in dallas. and next, michael reagan. it's so good to have you on. i wish you were on under better circumstances, but before we get to all of that, let's talk about that doctor in dallas and his message, messages not bouncing off each other but sitting down and listening to each other, powerful. >> it was so powerful. i was sitting here watching it in the studio, and i was so glad i was here at cnn los angeles, being able to watch that interview that you did with him, because you had a conversation with him. there was no attack. this is my side, what's your side. and that seems to be so much of what we do in the media today. we go to our corners, choose our sides, and it's basically done for ratings. and unfortunately, what happened in dallas isn't about ratings. the messages that he puts out there, finding a way to speak with each other, understanding
each other is a great message, and i was so glad i was able to sit here and watch you and him speak about dallas. >> thank you for that. but it's also, it's not just about ratings, but it seems to be about politics as well. we get so caught up in left versus right and black lives matter versus police, but at the end of the day, quite frankly, the only one thing we have in common, whether we're black, white, is that we're american, black americans, white americans, asian-americans, we have to live in this country together. because what's the a.lternative? >> you're absolutely right. i write about this in my book, what my father taught me. ronald reagan had to get together with the democrats, had to get together with tip o'neill. we don't seem to be doing that much anymore where we're finding the areas of commonality, where
we can sit down and find those areas where we have the common good in mind, what can we do to make it better for all people. that's also the message of dr. williams, listen. we are all americans, but let's find that common ground where we can sit down and talk with each other so you know my heart. if you watched that interview or at the press conference and you don't understand his heart, you don't have a heart. i learned so much from the press conference he did today and the interview you just had with him a few moments ago. >> let me ask you something. the conventions are coming up. considering what's happening in the country right now, this probably should be addressed at the conventions. we're going to have the town hall here on wednesday, but another good place to start is at the conventions, to have the candidates and politicians actually deal with this and
actually talk to each other and come to some consensus. >> but not take it from a political standpoint, which they have a tendency to do. but take it from the real standpoint of what can we do? there's a problem in america. let's understand that. and let's not just always point fingers and attach blame to that group or that group. and find the areas in that group that we may disagree with. i disagree with black lives matter, but the other side of it is there's something in there that we can agree on. so let's fieptd the areas that we agree and begin at that point and move out instead of looking where we don't agree and never going anywhere. >> always a pleasure, michael reagan. thank you. >> thank you. when we come back, inside the mind of the dallas shooter. what the shooter scrawled on the wall and in his own blood.
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this is cnn breaking news. breaking news, new proits tonight after a week of shocking violence and new details about the gunman who killed five dallas police officers, as we look at live pictures tonight from atlanta. one of those protests. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. police say micah johnson left this chilling clue, the